[LetsFlyNow]

Initially reported by the Australian Financial Review (AFR) and now by all the news media incl. Reuters, BBC etc QR is in the final stretch to buy up to a 20% stake in Virgin Australia with an announcement as early as next weeek.

VA owners Bain Capital wanted to take the company public but that was put on hold. Apparently talks with Singapore airlines ended without a deal.

Now QR is said to be on the verge of closing the deal.
QR has ofcourse been partnering/codesharing with VA since 2022 and i even managed to book an award flight on VA using QR avios.

We know that QR has been struggling to get more traffic rights to Australia with strong opposition von Qantas. Qatar also leased former VA B777-300ER planes when it went into voluntary administration.

Will we see VA go back to widebodies & long haul flying? Interesting times for the Australian market if this comes to fruition.

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Jacob, AMcWhirter, tomwjsimpson, christ, sparkyflier

[Mark]

I would like to travel with VA again in their long haul business cabin
It was a great experience.
Happy with QR too.

[cwoodward]

Qatar are of course a OW airline as is Qantas and they also hold 20% of CX.
The aim of VA must be to resume a long haul network and they have already made a small start with their A320 flight from AU to Japan.
I would like to see them resume their HK route.

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christ

[LetsFlyNow]

VA flies with the B737 MAX 8 CNS-HND. The ‘new’ VA flies an exclusively Boeing fleet.

[esselle]

Given the strength of the Virgin brand, and the fact that the “Virgin” logo is identical on both VA and VS aircraft, I wonder how many pax believe, or might believe in future, that they are one and the same?

[sparkyflier]

This move by Qatar is basically giving Qantas a very straight and robust middle finger. QF chose to go with Emirates not oneworld partner QR and has been blocking Qatar from more access to the Oz market.

essence you are right. Many will assume that they are one and the same or at least related but we know they are entirely separate businesses. Given SRB still part owns VS maybe Virgin Australia is more likely to have their name altered?

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LetsFlyNow, AndrewinHK

[Jimmywright]

As we know the whole Virgin name is a franchise. Virgin wants people to think the brands are one in the same as it makes them more money whilst the individual companies who pay royalties to use the name also benefit. I doubt any part purchase of VA by Qatar will change that.

As for Qantas partnering with Emirates rather that Qatar do of course remember at the time that started Qatar was not part of OneWorld, and even though they are now they are still very much the outlier in the OneWorld alliance.

[esselle]

I actually think the QF/EK tie-up was more of a snub to BA as, prior to that, QF and BA shared codes on routes down to Australia through SIN and this traffic transferred in large part to DXB.

No doubting though that QR will use this to increase its traffic into Australia and over time may be able to exert more direct influence than they have been in the past. This will of course create a direct challenge to QF.

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LetsFlyNow, DerekVH, tomwjsimpson

[AndrewinHK]

I would disagree with the point that Qatar are an outlier in One World, I would argue they are the most invested as they own part of IAG and CX. The QF/EK tie up is awkward for them as Qantas is protectionist and even more so when you’re already aligned with a high capacity Middle East carrier the last thing you want is even more capacity. Qatar is a big threat to the value of the alliance Qantas has with EK.

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cwoodward, esselle

[Jimmywright]

Sorry disagree. Qatar are very much an outlier. Sure they part own IAG and others, but their commitment to the alliance is no where as strong as most of the other members. Their specific rules around lounge access being a great case in point. Sure airlines like BA have lounges like the Concorde lounge which have special rules, but Qatar applies special rules to the lower level lounges too rather than aligning with other OneWorld airlines.

And as the poster above said the Qantas/EK alliance is a snub of BA not Qatar. Back when that was formed Qatar was not a OneWorld member and their flight network to Australia was not as extensive as it is today either. But would agree Qatars code share with Virgin Australia coupled with a possible investment is a snubbing of Qantas.

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DerekVH

[AndrewinHK]

If QR had been a OW member When the original alliance with EK was first discussed, things might look quite different. The reality now is that Qantas has actively tried to stop Qatar from gaining more access to the Australian market, Qantas has shown its teeth and forced Qatar to look at other options, not the other way around. QR and the role they have in OW, my argument is from a business perspective they are the most invested in the alliance, with equity stakes in BA/Iberia/CX as well as part-owning the OW hub at LHR. I would wager they are crucial in expanding OW in Africa, with Rwandair and if rumors are true SAA as potential new members, and not forgetting Oman Air who they sponsored (a small win I know) but they are strengthening the alliance. My question back to you would be, what are Qantas doing for One World in comparison?

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cwoodward, sparkyflier, Paul

[esselle]

I’m wondering if the One World argument might be a bit of a red herring.

QF had a OW link into Australia with BA. But that gave limited access, SYD and MEL (mainly SYD). QR would have given QF no improved access at that time (and by the way QR were a member of OW in 2013 which is when the QF/EK link started).

My sense is that the EK link broadened the QF network into its home country when compared with its BA link, thus increasing its value inherent in codeshare flights as EK were flying into ports beyond SYD and MEL.

If that wasn’t the case, why would they have made the change?

[LetsFlyNow]

One has to wonder what was so attractive about the the EK Partnership that QF decided to dump long time Partner BA.

BA and QF had a joint venture since 1995 (17yrs) covering all services between Australia and the UK. Surely BA had/has a denser European network than EK ever will. As it always is, i’m guessing that EK offered QF a juicier share of revenue than was the case with BA.

At the time QF changed partners it also ended the codeshare Partnerships they had with AF from HKG to CDG as well as with CX from HKG to Rome.

Just a few years ago AF-KLM announced QF as their main Partner to Australia with passengers connection in SIN, HKG or BKK.

I remember i was very fascinated by the EK QF announcement at the time. Then ofcourse it didn’t last very long till we started hearing of the QF A380s running almost empty between Dubai and SYD/MEL and QF subsequently abandoning the Falcon for the Kangaroo route.

[cwoodward]

I believe that the tie-up was just yet another error by the former ‘management’ and compliant incompetent board-QF will just need to live with the consequences.

Looking at the AU media it seems most believe that the purchase by Qatar is a ‘done deal’.

[cwoodward]

Qantas are being spanked hard into Asia and beyond by bothe SIA and CX and their very solid captive ‘Aussie’ base has been steadily eroded over the past 30 years by immigrants from 90 countries who now outnumber 3rd and beyond generation Australians and who will no longer make Qantas their first or even second call for international travel.

As I see it neither QF or ANZ are in good shape both as a direct result of poor management over extended periods. ANZ still ‘owns’ the NZ domestic market and makes money there but even that will not last forever and they need to get back into Europe before it’s too late. The over concentration on the US market is not a sound option ( they are being ou tgunned by the US carriers) although their coverage of the Asian market is reasonably solid competition is heating up their also and their cosy stitch -up of the NZ-HK market with CX will not last forever.

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AndrewinHK

[Author]

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